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Post by Archangel on Aug 14, 2006 21:29:08 GMT -5
I've noticed that there has been little to no activity on the boards over the past couple of days and I am just kinda wondering whats going on.
I'm hoping that its wasn't the club getting started up or something I said. Whether or not TOR ever formally forms a club, there will always be this forum and I hope that we all continue to use it.
Please, if there are any concerns, thoughts or comments about TOR becoming a actual club, now is the time to speak up. Perhaps I pushed this on a little to fast, and if thats the case I apologize. I really felt like, and still do feel that there are about 15 folks here interested in forming TOR... Am I way off base? Am I reading the boards wrong? '
Forming TOR is not meant to deter anyone from this forum or from four wheeling. Matter of fact, I think it will make it better.
I just hope its nothing I've done. This board was doing so well and gaining members, and now it just seems like there are only about 5 people who ever post anything....
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Post by azdesertrhino on Aug 14, 2006 21:47:47 GMT -5
I noticed I was the last new member. Maybe it's me!! I think the beginning plan for the club is good. It may begin slow and I know some folks shy away from a structured club.
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Post by slick1100 on Aug 14, 2006 21:54:26 GMT -5
Eh, I'm still here. Aside from Lincoln lunacy and Vespa vexation, I've been very busy, plus working. Maybe everyone's just out wheeling?
Another possibility is, has everyone agreed that this should be a club? Perhaps we've gone from growing fast as a free forum to growing slow as a dues paying club? And maybe it's just a lull in posting, and not to be worried about.
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Post by 2000taco on Aug 14, 2006 22:12:42 GMT -5
I am excited about TOR turning into an official club and i cant wait for all the wheels to start turning. i know i was at the lake all weekend so that obviously cut down my "logged on time"
But i am back on every chance i get again.
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Post by zulu on Aug 14, 2006 22:17:06 GMT -5
I am here, i just wished that more people were on the chat room sat nite. Maybe the chat room should have been done on a weeknite. or better yet have another one on a week nite. Right now james the jury for me is still out to form a club. not saying that it wont work and by god i hope it does but i still have my doubts
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Post by azdesertrhino on Aug 14, 2006 22:21:29 GMT -5
I worked on the rig Saturday and just completely spaced the chat room meeting. ::
What has been the general consensus regarding forming a formal club?
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Post by zjeep on Aug 14, 2006 22:43:22 GMT -5
James i also noticed a slowing in posts on here, ive had to resort to constantly giving you sh*t on here to entertain myself. Im all for the Club and hopefully more than 15 others feel the same way. Im sure it will all work it just give it some time like others said maybe people are busy and dont have as much spare time as we do to just sit around and play on here....
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Post by zjeep on Aug 14, 2006 22:44:07 GMT -5
Also the slowing of posts may of had something to do with Jim joining the club like he said ;D lol
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Post by 7Lbar on Aug 14, 2006 23:23:57 GMT -5
I'm still here...I think or I could just be talking to myself again..
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Post by azdesertrhino on Aug 14, 2006 23:25:43 GMT -5
Also the slowing of posts may of had something to do with Jim joining the club like he said ;D lol LMAO!! That is very possible!!
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Post by 99frontierxe on Aug 14, 2006 23:26:40 GMT -5
I am still here too, but been REALLY busy with planning the wedding, and being at work on second shift sucks too. My fiance and I were up till almost 4am this morning getting all the invitations printed. Work today sucks, hella busy... I just wanna go home and have a few heinekens (or however the hell you spell it)
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Post by dragon51 on Aug 15, 2006 1:37:54 GMT -5
Ok I will blame the old guy Jim "azdesertrhino " for the slowing down of the form. Don't you know when you get that old you just lie about your age and tell everyone you have just been out in the sun for too long! ;D ;D ;D ;D lol Well I in my honest opinion I really believe it's better to start with quality not quantity, with members that you know will not leave you hight and dry!
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Post by yotamaster on Aug 15, 2006 3:50:17 GMT -5
Well I 'm glad you guys are back I was tired of posting all weekend and nobody responding. I still have the "steel run" thread if anybody wants to post.
I'm all for the club...but I have a few questions... I readed the bylaws and somethings...well I don't know. I need a few things...well answered I guess. Somethings in the bylaws just don't add up. I don't know if that makes any sense but it's all I've got.
But I'm still here every night and morning and whenever else the wife lets me get online. I really love this forum ;D
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Post by Archangel on Aug 15, 2006 4:55:25 GMT -5
Well I 'm glad you guys are back I was tired of posting all weekend and nobody responding. I still have the "steel run" thread if anybody wants to post. I'm all for the club...but I have a few questions... I readed the bylaws and somethings...well I don't know. I need a few things...well answered I guess. Somethings in the bylaws just don't add up. I don't know if that makes any sense but it's all I've got. But I'm still here every night and morning and whenever else the wife lets me get online. I really love this forum ;D Give me a call sometime 850-9359 or make sure you make to the meeting on the 16th...any and all questions will be answered. ;D
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Post by rstep on Aug 15, 2006 7:25:13 GMT -5
I'm still here just doing more wrenching then typing the last few days.I have seen this on other fourms lately drop off of posting.
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Post by K5 on Aug 15, 2006 17:52:03 GMT -5
I was in San Diego all weekend (man the beach was nice ;D, and 85 degrees all the time, I almost didn't' come back). I'm really excited about the club. Like archangel said, if anyone has any questions about the formation of the club feel free to PM myself or archangel. We will be glad to answer any and all questions.
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Post by roverob on Aug 15, 2006 20:35:36 GMT -5
I just wanna go home and have a few heinekens (or however the hell you spell it) Just look on the bottle
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Post by blluebear on Aug 15, 2006 20:49:24 GMT -5
I'm still here! ;D
I think there will always be a lull of some kind now and then. I do not think that the club formation thing has anything to do with it. Some people have life issues or do other things for fun.
Then you have me. Working two jobs at just under 70 hrs a week and I still have to log onto the forum at LEAST once a day. This is the first forum that I have done that with. Most of the other fourms that I have been on seem like a radio that you have listened to for the last year and they only have 25 CDs.
I only post if I think that I might have something to add to the conversation. I was wanting to suggest a run, but I only know the area around Sierra Vista and south of that. They are only family runs and probably a long distance for most with the gas prices. They are not better where I'm at. I just put $60 in the tank yesterday. Ouch!
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Post by zjeep on Aug 16, 2006 1:01:45 GMT -5
Wont be on for about 5 days while on my trip so dont get worried that i left the club lol talk to you all when i get back.
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Post by rockr on Aug 16, 2006 16:48:19 GMT -5
well james, if it means crap, this is what i see: i "joined" this web thinking, hey, it might be a way to meet new guys to wheel with! so i signed on. i noticed that pretty much all the guys had casual 4WD's and some just 2WD's. my junk as you know is rather extreme, like off=road ONLY that's ok, i have wheeled with rigs not built as much as mine a MILLION times and also the other way around. i just like to wheel! anyways......as soon as i seen the "club" thing going around, i began to lose interest immediately. that's just the way i am about the close-knit clubs. i don't like PAYING to wheel. i don't need a "club" to to represent me with the feds, senate, greenies etc. i know the bastards are gonna eventually take away all our public lands. that's a NO BRAINER. i just pray it don't all go away before my time and after i'm gone i could care less! i wheel almost EVERY weekend in the florence area. i am very active on the UNDERTAKERS web where i have a lot of friends, mostly residing in the phoenix area. i have some wheelin friends in tucson but only a handful. we get together through email and/or the UNDERTAKERS web. USUALLY when a group of guys get serious enough to make the commitment of forming a "club" then that about shuts-out the remainder. forming a club is just rediculous to me. RULES, BYLAWS, DUES, MEETINGS, CORRESPONDENCE.........like we don't have enough complications in life already......now you want our hobby to be complicated!!!!!!!!!!! party ONNNNNNNNN
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Post by Archangel on Aug 16, 2006 17:18:40 GMT -5
well james, if it means crap, this is what i see: i "joined" this web thinking, hey, it might be a way to meet new guys to wheel with! so i signed on. i noticed that pretty much all the guys had casual 4WD's and some just 2WD's. my junk as you know is rather extreme, like off=road ONLY that's ok, i have wheeled with rigs not built as much as mine a MILLION times and also the other way around. i just like to wheel! anyways......as soon as i seen the "club" thing going around, i began to lose interest immediately. that's just the way i am about the close-knit clubs. i don't like PAYING to wheel. i don't need a "club" to to represent me with the feds, senate, greenies etc. i know the bastards are gonna eventually take away all our public lands. that's a NO BRAINER. i just pray it don't all go away before my time and after i'm gone i could care less! i wheel almost EVERY weekend in the florence area. i am very active on the UNDERTAKERS web where i have a lot of friends, mostly residing in the phoenix area. i have some wheelin friends in tucson but only a handful. we get together through email and/or the UNDERTAKERS web. USUALLY when a group of guys get serious enough to make the commitment of forming a "club" then that about shuts-out the remainder. forming a club is just rediculous to me. RULES, BYLAWS, DUES, MEETINGS, CORRESPONDENCE.........like we don't have enough complications in life already......now you want our hobby to be complicated!!!!!!!!!!! party ONNNNNNNNN Steve, I like you bud... I'd consider you one of my friends here in the Tucson area...hell, we both have YJ's and we are a rare breed anymore...lol My take on your comments is this... Everyone is entitled to thier opinions and thoughts. There are always going to be folks who do not want to be part of a club or an organiztion... So be it...Thats thier god given right and by forming a TOR club, we are not separating ourselves from anyone. I've seen clubs do great things. I've also seen what you speak of and things fall apart. The four different clubs I've helped start and been a part of are still in operation to this day and are running strong... Paying to wheel? Who's saying you have to pay to wheel? Again, you don't have to join the club...only two things you have to do in life...live and die...that simple... I don't care if your in a club, not in a club, in a different club, in a club I don't care for...wheeling is wheeling and I'll do it with ANYBODY. Oh, and its funny you mention shutting everyone else out? Aren't you part of the Undertakers? And, how do you get into the Undertakers?...thats right, you have to be invited... (Which by the way, I still cannot get onto the undertakers forum). I too wheel just about every single weekend. I too enjoy my outdoors time. Can I pose a question? Steve, when was the last time you donated any money to the Blue Ribbon Coalition or UFWDA? If so, how much? If the trails in FJ were shut down, would you have a strong enough "voice" as an individual to get them reopened? As an individual, can you get US Grant money for conservation work? As a club, we can answer yes to those questions... Like I said, Steve, this is not an attack, but rather a different perspective, mine... Like I mentioned, I don't expect everyone to agree with it, but for those that do, we are forming TOR. The forum will still exist, regular folks will still be on the forum...they will still wheel, and hell, I'll probably lead most of the trips... This is where we differ greatly... 50 years ago, access to the Grand Canyon, Yellowstone and many other national treasures was ALOT MORE OPEN. Today, due to closures, environmental issues and greenies, the access today is NOTHING like it was 50 years ago... Look back through any of your old 4 wheeling mags or through old stories on the net..trails get closed, lands get closed, parks get closed...Hell, look at the Rubicon trail...in the last TWO YEARS, parts of it have been close because people don't care... My girls (4 & 16 Months) love to get out and go with daddy in the Jeep. I hope that one day, they will be as interested in the off road sport/hobby as much as I am now. I hope that by my efforts, regardless of how small, I'll be able to help keep trails, parks and general off road access open. I do care about the trails, even after I leave... As for secluding folks... Take a look at www.alaska4x4network.com ..1 board, 5 Private clubs...and everyone talks to everyone...It can work, with the right folks and a little elbow grease a club can be a GOOD thing.
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Post by dragon51 on Aug 16, 2006 17:44:32 GMT -5
James well said.
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Post by rockr on Aug 16, 2006 18:54:35 GMT -5
sounds like a FOLLOWER to me ;D anyway JAMES: yellowstone, grand canyon is to name only a few. and you are RIGHT! i was in both places MANY times in the 60's and 70's and oh how they have changed for the WORSE........... MY BOTTOM LINE: 1. i have NEVER contributed to blue collar coalition and never will! 2. you can "fight" for your rights as much as you please, just don't include me. 3. if FJ gets closed down, and by the way.....it WILL happen just don't know when, then so be it and i'll look for another place to wheel. 4. the government will do what ever they damn well please, you know, "BIG BROTHER". they will play the game with you-all guys that are "putting up a fight" and say things to your face that you want to hear but after you turn your back..........BALLGAME BABY! 5. my motto is, enjoy what you have while you can, let your daughters deal with what is around when they get older. it sounds so sincere and down-to-earth rightious to say you want to save and protect for your loved ones. ain't gonna happen james, SORRY see ya out on the trail (maybe) i'm DONE
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Post by Archangel on Aug 16, 2006 20:45:23 GMT -5
sounds like a FOLLOWER to me ;D anyway JAMES: yellowstone, grand canyon is to name only a few. and you are RIGHT! i was in both places MANY times in the 60's and 70's and oh how they have changed for the WORSE........... MY BOTTOM LINE: 1. i have NEVER contributed to blue collar coalition and never will! 2. you can "fight" for your rights as much as you please, just don't include me. 3. if FJ gets closed down, and by the way.....it WILL happen just don't know when, then so be it and i'll look for another place to wheel. 4. the government will do what ever they damn well please, you know, "BIG BROTHER". they will play the game with you-all guys that are "putting up a fight" and say things to your face that you want to hear but after you turn your back..........BALLGAME BABY! 5. my motto is, enjoy what you have while you can, let your daughters deal with what is around when they get older. it sounds so sincere and down-to-earth rightious to say you want to save and protect for your loved ones. ain't gonna happen james, SORRY see ya out on the trail (maybe) i'm DONE Steve..sorry you feel this way. I had no intentions of upsetting you or offending you. I was merely offering my perspective, just as you offered yours. In response - 1. Again, your choice...I was just curious. 2. Um....I don't think I asked you to join anything nor have I forced you to join anything, therefore, by your own choice, you won't be included. Simple Really... I think one of the misconceptions going around is that this forum is still going to be EXACTLY as it is even after TOR is formed. Due to a few members showing interest in forming a club, TOR is likely going to start soon. However, that does NOT mean this forum will change. You can still come here (club member or not), you can still talk, you can still post, you can still wheel...hell, we are not making this a (IF YOUR NOT IN THE CLUB YOU CANNOT BE ON THE FORUM).... We all came to this forum to dicuss and share what we all love....offroading! 3. Where are you going to look thats legal as well as suitable for offroading? When are you going to stop looking? 4. I know how the government works...I was in the military (Ranger). I understand that we can talk until we are blue in the face, and things may never change....but like my dad always told me...you don't know unless you try... I'll continue to fight the fight, walk the walk, and talk the talk just for the sheer satisfaction knowing that I did my best I could to help. 5. Thats a great motto...enjoy what you have....I do every single day I breathe.... However, as long as I am on this earth, I'll never let my daughters just "deal" with something that I could have potentially helped with earlier in life...just not me. I've done some conservation work in the past. Through a joint effort of the 4x clubs, the ATV clubs and the National Gaurd, we were able to keep the Knik Recreational Area open in Alaska. An area that is a huge watershed area, and is PROTECTED by many laws and acts....but because we all got together, and worked it out (with the national gaurd in case you missed that, they even helped us with the cleanup...) we were able to keep a HUGE offroad area open with hundreds of miles of trails.... Enjoy your trails in FJ Steve. I look forward to someday being able to wheel with ya. I've been so busy working and my heep, I've yet to have time to get to FJ....although I do have a truck and trailer now... ;D
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Post by azdesertrhino on Aug 16, 2006 23:56:19 GMT -5
Sometimes structured organizations are tough to deal with. There can be attitude, heated discussions etc.
I was secretary of a Vietnam Veterans chapter in Broward County, Fla. Sometimes it was a PITA.
BUT, we did great things. We purchased and ran an ambulance for disabled vets who couldn't get to the V.A. hospital on their own. We performed numerous community service events. We started the original "Operation Shoebox" during the first Gulf War.
I don't remember seeing anything posted that said anyone HAD to join the club. In fact, I remember reading that the forum and wheeling would be open to all.
I also have some questions, but I think organizing is a step in the right direction.
Remember one thing. The "Greenies" are well funded and very vocal.
All our public use lands WILL disappear IF WE JUST SIT AROUND AND DON'T DO ANYTHING!!
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Post by azdesertrhino on Aug 17, 2006 0:01:03 GMT -5
Ok I will blame the old guy Jim "azdesertrhino " for the slowing down of the form. Don't you know when you get that old you just lie about your age and tell everyone you have just been out in the sun for too long! ;D ;D ;D ;D lol /quote] See you on the trail!! <<GRIN>>
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Post by Archangel on Aug 17, 2006 0:23:35 GMT -5
Ok I will blame the old guy Jim "azdesertrhino " for the slowing down of the form. Don't you know when you get that old you just lie about your age and tell everyone you have just been out in the sun for too long! ;D ;D ;D ;D lol /quote] See you on the trail!! <<GRIN>> Uh oh...lol ;D Which gun did you want me to bring Jim? Maybe I'll just bring the airsoft..lol
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Post by dragon51 on Aug 17, 2006 1:44:17 GMT -5
Ok I will blame the old guy Jim "azdesertrhino " for the slowing down of the form. Don't you know when you get that old you just lie about your age and tell everyone you have just been out in the sun for too long! ;D ;D ;D ;D lol /quote] See you on the trail!! <<GRIN>> Uh oh...lol ;D Which gun did you want me to bring Jim? Maybe I'll just bring the airsoft..lol Screw that ;D that thing hurts and leave's welts I just need to bring my 357 pellet gun....ouch lol. ;D
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Post by yotamaster on Aug 17, 2006 3:32:16 GMT -5
James I wanted to say thank you for what you said, because I feel the sameway. I want so badly for my daughter and my son to be out there in my truck with me. Wheelin and enjoying life. My daughters 2 and a half and she loves to help daddy work on his truck when it comes home brook or bent. Even when I'm getting ready to go on the trail. My son is still in the my wife's belly and I know he's going to dig this.
That's Why I want to keep trails open. That's why I've been looking for a club to join that was into that.
I think we have an abilty to start this TOR club and not be like other clubs. Mold it into what we want. Plus I really think and I know I haven't met most of you, but I know we have a good set of people here on this forum. I think well to great things as a club.
But remember Wheelin is first before dues, pledges, bylaws what ever. Wheelin most come first.
And this me getting of my soap box. ;D Good night guys
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Post by azdesertrhino on Aug 17, 2006 7:37:52 GMT -5
I think we have an abilty to start this TOR club and not be like other clubs. Mold it into what we want. Plus I really think and I know I haven't met most of you, but I know we have a good set of people here on this forum. I think well to great things as a club. But remember Wheelin is first before dues, pledges, bylaws what ever. Wheelin most come first. I would like to see an organization that doesn't exclude people or get the "Holier than thou" attitude. I went to a meeting for a group here in Tucson. ONE person out of the whole group came up and said hello. The rest acted like you had leprosy or something but they sure wanted you to apply and pay their dues.
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